Thread colors, Textures and Appearance/Dye Lots
A TemariKai Resource page
        Recently the TT Discussion List was mulling over differences in appearance of threads within and between manufacturers (specifically pearl cotton in DMC) and several readers generated the following information that is across-the-board helpful, given that pearl cotton and embroidery floss from DMC and Anchor are the mainstay fibers many people use. In DMC, color numbers are standard across their color line in that if you choose color XXX, it will be the same in floss, pearl and the other DMC products.  This is true in many, but not all, thread manufacturers.

        However, regardless of manufacturer and even with no dye lot, remember that different fiber types will "take" dye differently, so things like texture and sheen will impact color appearance. Dyes can affect the base thread differently (when a thread is dyed it's a chemical reaction) and can result in a minor change in texture of a thread - which is why you will often find that darker colors of thread are a tiny bit "thicker" than lighter colors. Also, even though colors are supposed to be standard in some products (as in no dye lots) - this is not always a given, since no one can control what happens in the environment to threads once they leave the factory. Threads that are stored in less than ideal circumstances can fade, absorb moisture, get dusty or be eroded (roughed up) so that the appearance is less than ideal - and this is not the manufacturer's fault (though it might mean you should be looking for a different fiber store!).

        Other companies and products DO have dye lots - that is, even though "Color A" is being prepared according to "formula" - each time a batch of "Color A" is made there will always be a very subtle difference between batches; it can't be helped because of fiber and chemistry. Each batch is a "dye lot".  It is always a good practice to purchase or obtain enough thread in the same color AND dye lot at the same time to complete a project, so that you are not finding yourself with subtle (or not so sublte) differences in appearance in a project.  In fact, there is always a "dye lot" - but, in modern technology most times the quality control is held to a tight enough standard that the variance in dye lot is so small as it cannot be seen with the human eye - so, the product is advertised as "no dye lot" - which is overall a good thing for most people and projects. For example - DMC (the last we checked) guarantees their dye lots to be 98% accurate - as in there is only a 2% chance that if you grab a skein now and a skein later of the same color, you are going to be able to "see" a difference in it.

       Another "tip" to remember is - shades of blue (and colors that use blue, like gray and sometimes greens) can over time, take on a brownish appearance. This is not dirt or soiling; the chemicals use in blue-based  colors oxidize over time when exposed to the atmosphere, and change to the brownish hue (think rust). Once it happens, it cannot be "undone". This is why older threads in these colors can seem to have a different tinge compared to new threads in the same color.

         When it comes to pricing differences between companies - well, often times there is a reason for it. If a company starts with a higher quality base thread, generally it will take the dyes better and more consistently, and also have a better wear and drape to it. It will generally avoid things like slubs, and have an overall smoother, more consistent texture and sheen (If applicable to the fiber). Does this matter? It's a matter of personal choice and what your project is.
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From Sue D, SD Designs: DMC threads are supposed to be the same across the board. In other words, Floss #498 red is suppose to be the same in Floss, #3 perle, #5 perle, #8 perle, #12 perle, medici wool, flouche and rayon floss. BUT because of the different fibers of the threads (i.e. cotton, wool and rayon) they will appear differently. And, the texture of each type of thread plays a roll in its appearance: i.e. cotton floss can be smooth, if laid it will have a shine to it also; perle cotton has a twist and so it will reflect light differently. Wool is a nap thread and so it appears flat or duller than other threads. Flouche is a cotton also and if laid can have a shine but it really is more of a matte/flat look. Rayon and metallic of course are always shinny and bright. Different threads of the same color will appear differently because of light refraction.

        Because of the dye regulations in the US, colors that have a red pigment seem to be more difficult to consistently dye the same. I have seen differences in blues, grays and greens also. Combine this with the factor that each thread takes the dye differently and you see where the variances can come in. A rule of thumb is to always buy enough of a color at the same time, check the dye lot (if there is one). It is better to have nine yards too much than to be short 36 inches. And DMC is not the only one that has dye lot variances; all threads have these differences. Overdyes (Note: Overdyed threads are ones that are first dyed a certain color and then have more colors applied over that. There will always be a certain degree of variance in the procedure, which is what adds to the final appearance) are the worst! Not only will an overdye have a different dye lot, the color range can change and even if two skeins appear to have the same color range the length of color may vary. ALWAYS buy enough overdye to complete your project at the same time...if you need large amounts ask your retailer to special order the overdye and it is even helpful to send a skein of the color you like. It will not be an exact match but at least the color range will be close.

        As you use the perle cotton, it will lose its luster/shine buy the constant pull through the ground. Since we use very long lengths of thread in temari this can be a problem and some colors will show this wear more readily than others. You will notice less of difference in a wrapped temari as you will in a stitched temari.


Anastasia offers the following tip if you cannot obtain enough thread in one dyelot for a project: if you know at the outset of your project that you are stuck with two different dye lots, then you can make the difference between the two practically invisible if you intermingle the colors: a row or two of A, a row or two of B, repeat. the dye lots will usually be close enough that your eye will blend the two shades into one color if they are intemingled. It is when you have a big block of one next to a big block of the other that your eye picks up the difference, and you're in trouble.


From Debi:  When I used to work in a stitching shop we got alot of questions about dye lots and comparing thread companies (mostly DMC vs Anchor)...here's what I have been told by various sources in the stitching
industry... Yes, the DMC colors are supposed to be the same across the whole line of threads.  This is true for most other companies as well.  (For example Caron uses the same names/ numbers for threads in the Wildflowers, Watercolors and Waterlilies lines.) You do have to remember that not all colors come in all lines from a manufacturer.  But as Sue said, different fibers and twists do take the dyes differently so you can see a color variance.  For the purpose of using a floss color chart or computer programs to match colors it is mostly close enough, though. I'll add another caveat to using the computer also...colors represented by a light producing source (like your computer screen) do not look the same as colors represented by a light reflecting source (like thread).  That's why it is so hard to choose thread colors from computer color charts.  But again, for general color exploration, it is fine; you just may have to adjust slightly when buying the actual fibers.

        Yes, there are different dye lots in  fibers (even it not discernable, and the product is marketed as no dye lot). They do not list a dye lot number on their packaging and they do not guarantee their dye lots.  Also, the dye lot can vary even within the same wholesale packaging.  So, if dye lot is a concern for you, you have to be careful buying the threads and examine the color closely in good light since what you see in any given bin is not necessarily the same.  That said, usually the dye lot difference is pretty small and for most purposes doesn't make a big difference.  Unfortunately it is the one time it does that always gets you.

        As far as dyelots on overdyes...I know that Caron does put a dyelot number on their fibers. I am not sure about other companies like Needle Necessities or Weeks.  It is something to look for since they can vary wildly.  We often had customers take out every skein of a color to find the one they liked best for a project.  Generally they expect that few projects will be using more than one skein so it would not be a big deal. It still is always a good idea to have some left over rather than run out.


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